>Huawei and Apple both exist. Yeah. But blackberry doesn’t. And the speed tesla is losing market share literally everywhere it’s not illegal to sell BYD doesn’t look like apple it looks like blackberry. >BYD is also fully funded by the Chinese government No it’s not. They’re just more vertically integrated and diversified than Tesla. The amount of subsidies/tax cuts/favorable loans they got is almost exactly the same as Tesla (and legacy auto also got a bunch). Turns out basically every country does industrial policy and in the US states do it too (tax cuts in exchange for building plants where we want them for example). >and mandated to drop EV prices across the world to dominate. Even if this were true (and it’s not) Tesla would still be fucked. You’d be able to yell “no fair” but that doesn’t make it not fucked. There is no path to Tesla being price competitive with BYD. That ship has sailed fair or not. >Tesla is still the leader because BYD copied them with FSD but FSD is a very different game. It’s really not a very different game. It’s fundamentally the same game. It’s autonomous driving software. Even if the algorithms worked very differently (and they don’t - it’s all machine learning on large models) it requires compute and sensors of similar cost to perform a similar function. >You can only play that game if you understand AI and compute at scale. Cool buzzwords! But no, Tesla has no significant qualitative advantage on AI. It does not have unique architecture that is way better than everyone. For many years it had a massive quantitive advantage. It had data nobody else had and could use that data to train its models. In AI training data is king. Tesla had the advantage here as nobody else could really collect large volumes of data. That’s now gone. BYD has lapped it in both quality and quantity. Even if Tesla was 10x as efficient in utilizing training data (and it’s not) that still wouldn’t save them. They don’t have magic sauce. They just **had** the best training set. They don’t anymore. That’s over. >Tesla has the edge and we will see it in at scale in 3-5 years Scale ironically is now Tesla’s downfall. It’s a cruel twist of fate. A couple of missteps by Tesla and now BYD did to them what they did to legacy auto.

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Huawei and Apple both exist. BYD is also fully funded by the Chinese government and mandated to drop EV prices across the world to dominate. Tesla is still the leader because BYD copied them with FSD but FSD is a very different game. You can only play that game if you understand AI and compute at scale. Tesla has the edge and we will see it in at scale in 3-5 years

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BYD is now ahead of Tesla in both volume and profit margin and also has a pretty straightforward path to autonomy fairly soon (they collect a lot more data than Tesla and have more sensors). Tesla had a head start on every category against them but have lost all categories except being closer to full autonomy (though neither are there yet and BYD is progressing faster). Even if they do get to autonomy with a 1-2 year head start there’s now zero reason to believe they’ll stay there and have a moat. At best they’ll have a couple good years of sales while waiting for everyone else to catch up and surpass them. L4 is now solved by several different companies (Waymo, Baidu, AVRide, Zoox all have L4 systems on the road now) so even if they get there first of the manufacturers they’ll have no moat. The theoretical moat of LiDAR being too expensive is also gone now that prices have dropped to a few hundred dollars a pop.

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Other than China who is innovating in the EV space more than Tesla? I stopped following closely a while ago but iirc they are still among the most efficient EVs globally and best value in North America. FWIW, comparing CCP funded companies to Tesla is apples to oranges. They only function because China funds everything while America is actively trying to kill EVs. They’re still *the* ev brand. When you think EV it’s Tesla same way people still think of Google with search. FSD program still has massive potential, Optimus is promising and competitive, and they’re still a top contender when it comes to EV manufacturing speed and efficiency. Again, a lot of this could have changed recently as I don’t follow closely. But as of somewhat recently they were top 2 next to BYD in all these fronts.

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BYD

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That's the thing though, much of the world wants EVs! China's crazy for them, Europe is dashing to convert to EVs, many countries in Africa are experiencing increased demand for them in parallel with renewables making electricity cheaper and making deals with BYD to produce EVs, etc. It's mostly just the US, Russia, and a few other countries doing the Nothing Ever Happens meme, along with the countries that simply cannot afford to transition.

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BYD is crushing Europe at the moment from what I've read.

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BYD has been opening factories and creating jobs everywhere. Instead, these goofballs would prefer to buy half the product at double the price and lose the jobs in the process. Atleast they are not as dumb as the Eurotards.

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Mexico manufactures a lot of cars but there are no domestic automakers, so the only thing they should be concerned about would be manufacturing employment. Chinese companies like BYD agreed to open plants there to circumvent this issue, but the plans were halted due to...you know who.

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Can we stop pretending that government subsidies are the reason for BYD's success? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-10-17/byd-s-rise-has-been-driven-by-a-lot-more-than-just-subsidies The US should be investing in and improving its manufacturing industry if it wants to compete rather than forcing consumers into paying inflated prices due to manufacturing inefficiencies.

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